List System (Our Classic WoW Raid loot distribution) (2 Viewers)

[Ghist]

This is unique system we designed long time ago back in 2005 when pitfalls of DKP had become too apparent. It was used by multiple guilds over several expansions. It was designed to combat hoarding, allow sitting out of raid, speeding loot distribution, Force people to plan ahead a bit with their gearing, to avoid disenchanting upgrades and not keep new members behind for more than 2 months a most. How this would work is that before start of a new month, every raider would create a prioritized list of what they want up to agreed number. I believe we used up to 10. However one could not place a new item on priority positions 1 and 2. Only way to get an item there would have been that it was on top of your list last month. At the end of each month you could move each item on your previous list up by one position. We did also mandate 80% attendance requirement. How this would work is that for example Azuresong Mageblade drops from Golemagg and there are 8 people with that on their list. People who have it on the highest numerical position on their list roll for it and whoever wins on get the item erased from their list. For example only Johnny and Mike have the item at priority position 1 (they have gone 2 months without getting it while it started at highest position on their list). They both roll and Mike wins it. If another one drops on the current month, it automatically goes to Johnny. Any item that is not on anyone’s list is a free roll as long as the recipient will use it and not disenchant it. The list is meant for main spec.

NOTE: Attendance is taken into account in following way:

• 80%+: nothing changes
• 60-79%: your list positions 1-3 are disabled
• under 60%: your list positions 1-4 are disabled

Advantages:

• While it takes some work at the start of new month, everyone will have clear understanding if they are in for major drops or if someone else has priority over them.
• When properly done loot distribution after boss kill is extremely fast.
• Sitting from raids to give other a chance is easier when one does not have to worry about missing a chance for drop if they do not have priority
• Less disenchanted upgrades as if the item is not on anyone’s list, it is a free roll as long as it gets used
• No Hoarding
• System has only 2 month long memory

Disadvantages:

• One can get very lucky but experience has shown people usually agree among themselves not to put all same item on top guaranteeing more even distribution
• Someone has to gather all lists from member in private before publishing them to whole clan/guild. It is a good practice that this person creates their list first and sends it password protected to several member to guarantee they did not make their list after seeing other people’s lists. He/she can then give those people who received his list a way to verify the collectors list was not altered.
• System has only 2 month long memory

Example of list system lists at the start of the MC (First Month):

Mage 1

1. Empty
2. Empty
3. Azuresong Mageblade (Golemagg the Incinerator)
4. Netherwind Pants (Ragnaros)
5. Arcanist Boots (Lucifron)
6. Arcanist Crown (Garr)
7. Arcanist Bindings (Trash)
8. Choker of Enlightment (Lucifron)

Mage 2

1. Empty
2. Empty
3. Azuresong Mageblade (Golemagg the Incinerator)
4. Choker of Enlightment (Lucifron)
5. Netherwind Pants (Ragnaros)
6. Arcanist Boots (Lucifron)
7. Arcanist Bindings (Trash)
8. Arcanist Crown (Garr)

Lets assume drops work like this:

1. 1 Azuresong Mageblade drops: Mage 1 and Mage 2 roll for it, higher roll gets it (lets assume mage 1 won) and item won gets updated as received on the Mage 1 list. And they get removed from Azuresong Mageblade recipient list
2. 1 Choker of Enlightment drops: Mage 2 will receive this on default as they have it on number 4 vs mage 1 having it as number 8.

Now let us assume Phase 1 is 2 months long and no new item drops gets introduced for 2nd month. Every item not received will move up one slot (This is the only way item can get to positions 1 and 2). Also new mage player joins the guild and makes their list. All players can re-organize their list except spots 1 and 2. Those can only be deleted if desired but not changed to another item.

Mage 1

1. Empty
2. Empty
3. Netherwind Pants (Ragnaros)
4. Arcanist Boots (Lucifron)
5. Arcanist Crown (Garr)
6. Arcanist Bindings (Trash)
7. Choker of Enlightment (Lucifron)
8. Sapphiron’s Drape (Onyxia)

Mage 2

1. Empty
2. Azuresong Mageblade (Golemagg the Incinerator)
3. Netherwind Pants (Ragnaros)
4. Arcanist Crown (Garr)
5. Arcanist Boots (Lucifron)
6. Sapphiron’s Drape (Onyxia)
7. Arcanist Chest
8. Arcanist Shoulders

Mage 3

1. Empty
2. Empty
3. Azuresong Mageblade (Golemagg the Incinerator)
4. Netherwind Pants (Ragnaros)
5. Arcanist Boots (Lucifron)
6. Arcanist Crown (Garr)
7. Arcanist Bindings (Trash)
8. Choker of Enlightment (Lucifron)

Note that Mage 2 now has priority over Mage 3 on Azuresong Mageblade, but that will only last max 2 months until both have it as #1 item in case it does not drop. This is fully intentional as that restricts the memory of the system to 2 months therefore new people are not kept away from possibility of having a chance any item more than 2 months. Also note than mage 2 and mage 1 discussed at the end of the months and both decided to alter their order a bit in regards of arcanist boots and crown so there would be less rolling and higher chance winning item rather than rolling against each other. This will foster some co-operation rather than relying only on rolls.

At the beginning of each month lists are broken down to boss specific list with names and positions for each boss. So when item drops, we immediately know if someone gets it by default or if there is a roll involved with people having it on same position on their lists. This may look complicated but it is very fluid system to handle the loot.

 

[Ghist]

One of the questions I often get is why not use Loot Council as almost everyone does use it nowadays. This is also evident on looking at guild recruitment posts for classic WoW. In perfect world, loot council with non-biased council members using data not personal feelings and friendships to decide who gets what is best possible loot distribution method. LC works well for guilds that are already established and where loot council members already have showed they can handle it without being biased and considering all factors.

What could affect LC decisions:

• Attendance
• Performance (not dying, # of mistakes, DPS, Healing etc)
• Size of the upgrade
• BiS or non-BiS upgrade
• When was the last upgrade received
• Effort outside of raid to better your character/play
• Are you helping others to improve/gear up?
• Use of consumables
• Personality
• Friendships between Loot Council members and guild members
• Leadership planning on replacing a player, therefore not giving them anything (still not telling the person they are to be replaced)

Out of the above list all Green ones would make sense to consider and Red ones should not affect loot distribution. Those should not affect LC and should be dealt in different way. As you can see from the above list, the number of factors is high and it is not easy to balance all those factors.

Our list system in many ways is a guild wide Loot Council where everyone participates and learns to co-operate. When we adopted the list system back in Vanilla WoW it lead to much higher level of understanding for the guild members on what was good on their class and other classes. People were agreeing on taking turns on high priority drops and in the end everyone has their own veto on it as they are their own final arbiter of their own list.

Legendary items are going to be exception for the List system and we are going to have our all our raiders to discuss those in advance and vote on it. For example, Thunderfury should go to tanks first as we can make a very good case for it, but we will put that on raider wide vote. We will discuss and make the decision in advance of the drop, not when the drop happens. Also there is no need to finalize the decision before item starts dropping. For example Bindings for Thunderfury can’t drop when Classic releases on phase 1. Atiesh decision does not have to be made until Naxxramas opens.

 

[Sidonis]

This is exactly why I dislike Loot Council. Everything in the red eventually creeps in over time and disadvantages either new players that don't know anyone, or less social old players who suddenly find themselves loot starved because an officer's buddy transferred in and everyone likes that person. Everything in the green section should be addressed by leadership regardless of loot, and frankly sitting a raider over issues in the green solves the loot issue without them being present in the raid and then getting nothing.