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Mikvatarius

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Sep 10, 2016
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Hey,
So I was hoping to nail down a couple of things, or rather tape them down since it's pre-alpha and subject to change...
First are we planning on adding more abilities for each class? Hence the 4 ability limit?
Second, are you required to take 1 ultimate ability?
Third, I feel the 3 day challenge time is a bit short when you have 7 days per attack round, almost like those should be reversed?
Fourth, if you are in 3 battles and are challenged how do you prevent getting into a fourth?
Fifth, I don't understand 'the pit' concept from what is listed in the rules at the moment
Sixth, Mentioning abilities not being used. I noticed auto attacks were used in the examples but no mention of them here.
6a. can you do other things like block?
6b. some abilities might need to be adjusted because of this, will explain at abilities below.
seventh, Can we create a pool of starting items for weapons and armor instead of grabbing them as we start a fight:
7a. Suggestion: Staff (3ap) robes (2dp), bow(7ap) leather(3dp), sword(5ap) shield(1dp) chain(4dp) greatsword(10ap) [numbers to be adjusted but something along that scale]
Eighth, I don't understand the following or it's relevance: "-There are 3 damage tiers for skills. Low is 0-10 damage. Medium is 11-15 damage. High is 15+ damage"
Ninth: Abilities,
a.The first problem I saw was the warriors way to regen resources quickly and with no cooldown, especially when the wizard has abilities that punish you for attacking the warrior can just regen instead. suggestion: make the effects last for the next 2 attacks for example instead of the next two rounds.
b. I didn't notice the armor coming into play in the example fights but I wasn't looking at every blow by blow number change, and with the wizard having the lowest potential armor (classically) and the ability to run out of mana quickly without having a way to regen it effectively (see low auto attack roll in second example fight) I feel something needs to be adjusted there, either a boost to spell power or a reduction in cost.
c. I totally agree with rounding everything or making static numbers but I feel rounding down is more ideal, doing half of one damage should deal 0 or else it feels unhelpful. Need to play test this more.

Just wanted to get some feedback for the above, I'm totally down with getting some bearings with playtesting but mechanics need to be ironed out more fully at this stage (Just my humble opinion)
Thanks all!
-Mik
 

BigPun

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Jan 3, 2013
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Its testing phase so it doesn't really matter any time period or limits to battle are not followed we just want the game to get as much testing so only thing that matter are game rules. You can change class and spells for each battle as we just want to see them all in work. Weapons add to the damage but armors dont have a function yet.


Just make some battles and we will change things as we deem neccesary.
 

sparkis

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Oct 1, 2016
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I also have some info to request, some of which are much in line with what [MENTION=72023]Mikvatarius[/MENTION] has mentioned. Without answers to some of these questions, I feel there's very little point doing any play testing other than testing the mechanics in communicating plays and outcomes. I've marked what I consider the critical ones in red.

Things I'd like to know are:
  • How does armour work in terms of damage mitigation?
  • How do shields work? Is it just another piece of armour?
  • Are chained stun/debuff effects allowed?
  • How do debuffs to defense work? Do you just remove that amount of armour?
  • What happens if the defense debuff is greater than the amount of armour you have? Does it just go to 0?
  • When do DoT effects trigger?
    • For example, the Warrior's ultimate ability, does the 2 turn DoT effect begin on the same turn the base damage occurs or for the follow two turns AFTER the initial skill is used?
  • Do roll debuffs stack their values e.g. Unleash the Hounds followed by Disabling Trap?
  • What does "Set Damage" mean in terms of Ranger skills and how does it get applied?
  • Is the Wizard's damage reduction calculated off the base damage from the opponent i.e. before armour, or the damage after armour is factored in?
  • With enemy resource reduction, can resources be put into a negative value?

Bear in mind, I don't have an issue with rules being interim in nature and can change over time but we need a base to work from.
 

BigPun

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Jan 3, 2013
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I also have some info to request, some of which are much in line with what [MENTION=72023]Mikvatarius[/MENTION] has mentioned. Without answers to some of these questions, I feel there's very little point doing any play testing other than testing the mechanics in communicating plays and outcomes. I've marked what I consider the critical ones in red.

Things I'd like to know are:
  • How does armour work in terms of damage mitigation?
  • How do shields work? Is it just another piece of armour?
  • Are chained stun/debuff effects allowed?
  • How do debuffs to defense work? Do you just remove that amount of armour?
  • What happens if the defense debuff is greater than the amount of armour you have? Does it just go to 0?
  • When do DoT effects trigger?
    • For example, the Warrior's ultimate ability, does the 2 turn DoT effect begin on the same turn the base damage occurs or for the follow two turns AFTER the initial skill is used?
  • Do roll debuffs stack their values e.g. Unleash the Hounds followed by Disabling Trap?
  • What does "Set Damage" mean in terms of Ranger skills and how does it get applied?
  • Is the Wizard's damage reduction calculated off the base damage from the opponent i.e. before armour, or the damage after armour is factored in?
  • With enemy resource reduction, can resources be put into a negative value?

Bear in mind, I don't have an issue with rules being interim in nature and can change over time but we need a base to work from.
For now just forget about the armor. That answers most of your questions. For all the other question i think we just need testing to see if we have to do some changes. Like chain stunning etc. if it turns out OP we will change it.

Also guys plz focus on testing! And we will change the game we feel is needed and ofc based on your input and feedback of the matches played. Game is pretty raw atm, but thats why we make this testing so we can shape it up.
 

sparkis

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Oct 1, 2016
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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what exactly we're testing. What are we testing specifically? Just general flow of game play and communication? Balance issues?

The problem with not answering any of the questions outlined is that we can't test the following skills in any meaningful way:
Warrior: Shieldbringer (what does -7 defense mean when you have no armor)
Ranger: Heartseeker (debuff on 0 armour is meaningless), Volley (how does low/high damage affect the game)
Wizard: Thunderstorm (remove 50% of the skill's abilities)

The only meaningful tests we can do are a Warrior comp without Shieldbringer or Wizard comp without Thunderstorm with a very edge case of having no armor in the game. Rangers can't be effectively tested as 1 out of 4 skills will be essentially dead. Any test done with an incomplete skill, I would argue, is just a waste of time.

If that's what you want done, sure that can be done. I get the whole pre-alpha thing. However, the sooner questions like those raised are answered, the more effective our tests can become.

Also, do we specifically have to play another person to do testing with? At least initially, I'd like to do tests just on my own (though played out in the open) to speed up initial testing. Of course we'll have to do person-to-person testing properly once game is better fleshed out.
 
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PapaRussia

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Jul 24, 2014
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[MENTION=72023]Mikvatarius[/MENTION]

1. For now, no new abilities will be added. After more testing, it will be decided then.
2. It's not required but it is suggested to have it.
3. If you challenge someone or accept someone's challenge, you're in a way saying that you'll have time to reply and fight back.
4. The admin of the section will inform the one who challenges you that you're currently in three other battles.
5. All information relevant to "The Pit" will be added back shortly.
6. We encourage fighters to mention the other when you're making an attack, but it's not required. Mentioning fighters makes the game go quicker.
6a. No defense moves
6b. Don't worry about it too much we've thought about it.
7. If you mean Attack Power and Defense Power we're not using that system, hence no need for the items to be scaled.
8. It's not relevant to the testers, it was used by us for testing purposes.
9a. We are aware of the situation, thank you for your feedback and we will not implement the suggestion, thank you.
9b. Unless it's a question directly relating to the game, please save your suggestions etc till Alpha is over with.
9c. Read 9b.

[MENTION=72598]sparkis[/MENTION]
1. Not important for testing purposes but when we arrive at that stage of testing the information will be given to you.
2. Read 1
3. Yes you have to roll a certain number for that to apply in the first place so it can "chain"
4. Irrelevant to Alpha testing.
5. Irreverent to Alpha testing
6. Please refer to the testing guide, it's stated there.
7. Yes they stack
8. It'll be changed in the future.
9. Illrevealent for Alpha testing
10. No, it'll go down to 0

1. Only used to go down to 0, it shouldn't be used anymore.
2. Same for 1, and the 2nd part was already covered above.
3. Needs more clarification
 

sparkis

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[MENTION=72023]Mikvatarius[/MENTION]

1. For now, no new abilities will be added. After more testing, it will be decided then.
2. It's not required but it is suggested to have it.
3. If you challenge someone or accept someone's challenge, you're in a way saying that you'll have time to reply and fight back.
4. The admin of the section will inform the one who challenges you that you're currently in three other battles.
5. All information relevant to "The Pit" will be added back shortly.
6. We encourage fighters to mention the other when you're making an attack, but it's not required. Mentioning fighters makes the game go quicker.
6a. No defense moves
6b. Don't worry about it too much we've thought about it.
7. If you mean Attack Power and Defense Power we're not using that system, hence no need for the items to be scaled.
8. It's not relevant to the testers, it was used by us for testing purposes.
9a. We are aware of the situation, thank you for your feedback and we will not implement the suggestion, thank you.
9b. Unless it's a question directly relating to the game, please save your suggestions etc till Alpha is over with.
9c. Read 9b.

[MENTION=72598]sparkis[/MENTION]
1. Not important for testing purposes but when we arrive at that stage of testing the information will be given to you.
2. Read 1
3. Yes you have to roll a certain number for that to apply in the first place so it can "chain"
4. Irrelevant to Alpha testing.
5. Irreverent to Alpha testing
6. Please refer to the testing guide, it's stated there.
7. Yes they stack
8. It'll be changed in the future.
9. Illrevealent for Alpha testing
10. No, it'll go down to 0

1. Only used to go down to 0, it shouldn't be used anymore.
2. Same for 1, and the 2nd part was already covered above.
3. Needs more clarification
Thanks for addressing the questions directly. Don't worry about the "needs more clarification" thing. You've already answered it i.e. no relevant for testing.

Ok, I'll test out what I can but as cautioned, any testing beyond Warrior comp without Shieldbringer or Wizard comp without Thunderstorm is not going to be that fruitful for the reasons mentioned.
 

Mikvatarius

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Sep 10, 2016
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Thanks for addressing the questions directly. Don't worry about the "needs more clarification" thing. You've already answered it i.e. no relevant for testing.



Ok, I'll test out what I can but as cautioned, any testing beyond Warrior comp without Shieldbringer or Wizard comp without Thunderstorm is not going to be that fruitful for the reasons mentioned.
[MENTION=40622]PapaRussia[/MENTION]

yes thank you for responding directly...
Are there chunks of the game you guys aren't telling us about or...? "when we arrive at that stage of testing the information will be given to you" Or do you just mean it hasn't been figured out yet?

I have to agree with [MENTION=72598]sparkis[/MENTION] that other than specific niche fights it's not really relevant to run tests at this stage, though I'm happy to be a part of this team and happy to oblige you guys' request to test it. In fact I ran a few fights against myself on paper and have some insights to report. However, I feel time and effort would be better spent deciding what the game is rather than testing what might get scrapped later.

In my tests the fighter came out on top of the wizard consistently, with the wizard in most cases not doing much damage at all to the fighter, to much randomness and not enough raw damage and high spell costs.
The wizard did win once when the fighter used sub optimal moves throughout the fight.
I assumed no armor etc.

Again thanks for getting back to us on these points, feel free to point us in the next direction you'd like us to go for testing.
 

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